Minimum Kings Team Salary

[DCKingsFan]

I have that the Kings need to spend a minimum of 85% of $58M or approximately $49M this year.

My guess is that we are at $47M right now +/-. So my guestion is, given that the Kings don't need to aquire even one player at the full MLE, will they really go for a high priced FA?

[DCKingsFan]

Also, if we are done, is this truely our depth lineup?

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/depth/_/name/sac/sacramento-kings

[Eze]

Petrie said the other day Kings are about one million short still.

And Jason Jones said yesterday that the Maloofs are irritated that the perception is that they wont spend money, so, that they're wanting to..just hope it's well spent, not just spending to spend.

[Eze]

Also, they're wrong on the depth chart - Hayes will move to starting PF, putting Hickson on the bench which makes a MUCH better rotation, IMO.

It allows a defensive/offensive combo between Hayes and Cousins and does the same thing for Hickson and Thompson. Thompson plays a much better center than PF. Averages a foul less per game and two more points and rebounds as a center.

Hickson/Cousins and Hayes/Thompson is shitty.

[DCKingsFan]

So do you think Jimmer is going to be the starting PG and Evans the starting SG?

[Eze]

Oh Jesus, I didn't even see that lolol.

Stupid ESPN.

[DCKingsFan]

I think so... I hope so... but this is these are the Magoof's Kings :banghead:

[Eze]

Nah, Westphal already named his starting lineup, more or less. Could change with additions, but, right now it's Cousins/Hayes/Salmons/Thornton/Evans.

Salmons would go to the bench if they sign Kirilenko, Thornton and Crawford would most likely split time.

[DCKingsFan]

So then are you saying it is going to be?
PG: Evans Fredette, Thomas
SG: Thorton, Garcia?
SF: Salmons, Greene, Honeycutt
PF: Hayes, Hickson, Whiteside
C: Cuz, Thompson

[Eze]

Pretty much. Kings will still make an addition or two, but close to that.

[Gunshot]

They could still bring in Crawford, AK-47 or (longshot) Dalambert
in which case Garcia is toast and things get shifted around

[Eze]

Still can't believe they're more opposed to keeping Garcia on the roster than Salmons. Garcia's an expiring next year - Salmons is due 14 million more than Garcia over the span of their contracts.

Who in their right mind wants Salmons at 8 million bucks for the next three years.

[bloatedmaniac]

Still can't believe they're more opposed to keeping Garcia on the roster than Salmons. Garcia's an expiring next year - Salmons is due 14 million more than Garcia over the span of their contracts.

Who in their right mind wants Salmons at 8 million bucks for the next three years.

Despite the fact on paper that Salmons is a better player than Garcia, it really comes down to money. Cutting Garcia costs $12M (maybe a bit more based on 3rd year option buyout). Salmons would cost $24M. If you are the Maloofs, that $10M+ you save keeping the player makes a lot of difference.

[nuraman00]

I'd be fine with an offseason of Thornton, Hayes, and AK.

But I'd also be disappointed that they're not even trying to get David West, Kris Humphries, Marc Gasol, or a Dalembert at a reduced offer (like now).

I know Marc Gasol is restricted, but at least make him an offer and let the Grizzlies match. David West at 2 years, $20 M is completely worth it. I can't believe he didn't get a 4 year deal.

If one of the above FAs had been signed, then a frontcourt of FA/Hayes/Cousins/Thompson would mean Hickson wouldn't have to see the court much.

Why couldn't they have been the ones to make the offer to DeAndre Jordan, instead of the Warriors? I don't think Jordan is all that, his offense will never get better, and he's not that good of a defender yet. But his contract is fair IMO, that's the same sort of contract Chandler and Brad Miller got back in 2003-2004.

As much as I like the guys they've signed so far, I can't give the FA portion of the offseason even a "C", as there were better names out there to be had.

Chandler and Nene wouldn't have made sense for a rebuilding team, so that's why I left them out.

Why couldn't they have signed one of these players who started at $10M? It wouldn't be that expensive, and it doesn't impact the longterm payroll.

Humphries is still out there, so it's not too late. Humphries-Cousins-Hayes would be a nice balanced frontcourt. And the good thing about Humphries is that he has a high FG%, unlike Hickson and Cousins.

I was fine with not spending much in 2010, as the only players I would have wanted were Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, David Lee, Carlos Boozer, or LeBron James.

But this year, there were more attainable 2nd tier stars, and so far, none of them.

[Gunshot]

We can't even get the guys we don't really want
Kirilinko is now being hit on by Prokhorov in a big way

[nuraman00]

We can't even get the guys we don't really want
Kirilinko is now being hit on by Prokhorov in a big way

I really want Kirilenko. He sucks on offense but is good at defense.

The Nets have a lower salary than the Kings, so they can offer him a max contract, lol. But both teams are far below the cap. A Caron Butler-like offer should get this done (3 years too, no longer).

[nuraman00]

So Humphries is a UFA. That means any team should be bidding on him.

Also, Prokhorov might not have enough cap space to sign both AK and Humphries. Especially if he wants to overpay Kirilenko. So I hope he then signs Kirilenko to a big contract so Humphries can come to the Kings (and not the Hornets or Rockets).

[nuraman00]

Houston already has 50,996,115. I think they are out of the picture. So it should come down to the Nets, Hornets, or Kings. That's a 33% chance.

[nuraman00]

Houston already has 50,996,115. I think they are out of the picture. So it should come down to the Nets, Hornets, or Kings. That's a 33% chance.

Plus New Orleans probably doesn't want to sign another expensive big, since they have Kaman and Okafor. That would then be 3 expensive bigs.

So the Kings have a 50% chance.

[EvansCousinsDUO]

I think Evans might transition into the SG position as the year goes on, he should stick at his natural position. If Jimmer does good he can be starting PG and thornton can get all backup minutes for pg or sg, so he will still be getting a lot of minutes. That would be a perfect guard rotation. Also honeycutt is a beast on 2k12. If you give him minutes and develop him, he becomes a monster on the offensive end. If I were the Kings I would trade garcia and salmons for draft picks and have honeycutt start, and greene be the backup. Greene showed fire at the goon squad classic game and will probably double his stats from last year.

[DCKingsFan]

Don't the Clippers need a C now?

[Eze]

A backup - they just signed DeAndre Jordan to a 4 year, 42 million dollar deal.

[bloatedmaniac]

Nobody would give picks for Salmons or Garcia. This isn't a video game, Honeycutt is far from developed. He needs to put a lot of work in for his strength/conditioning as well as experience. Getting junk time minutes early, and increasing his load down the road will help. He was a steal for a second rounder, but he will be overmatched early. You don't throw him into the fire so soon.

Greene always shows up in offseason games that don't matter like in the summer league. Just isn't able to do it in real games when players care. This is his make it or break it year though, so if he is the same way this season he'll be gone next year.

As far as signings go, I think Dalembert can be had for much less than his initial demands as his market has completely collapsed. He had interest early, but wanted too many years at $10M and now he is stuck. All the teams that wanted him are already over the cap and used their MLEs. I'd bring him in for a couple years if AK does indeed go for the Nets. Humphries is also a nice alternative on a short term contract. Any of these at least gives the Kings depth for now, and allows future flexibility. Throw contracts out there, get the first to sign and call it a day. I'd hate to have to see this team resign Mikki Moore to make the minimum.

[DCKingsFan]

Salmons and Garcia for next year's #1 pick!

[nuraman00]

Salmons and Garcia for next year's #1 pick!

What? Which team are you trading with? The Clippers? Their first rounder goes to Boston in 2012.

[DCKingsFan]

OK, you got me on this one... thinking it through, there aren't any teams that would take those two players for picks :(

[nuraman00]

OK, you got me on this one... thinking it through, there aren't any teams that would take those two players for picks :(

Why were you posting at Yesterday, 10:55 PM PST? Usually you start posting "I'm yawning" at halftime -- 8:15 PM PST. :) And you know I'm not kidding. Did you have another double espresso?

Anyways, the Kings don't need any more draft picks. They need to use their cap space on better players. I don't even know if they're trying to get Humphries. And they have a 50% chance of doing it, based on teams with cap space.

[Eze]

I'd break a few things if the Kings signed Kris. lol

I don't know what it is (probably the shitty attitude) but I can't stand that guy.

[nuraman00]

I'd break a few things if the Kings signed Kris. lol

I don't know what it is (probably the shitty attitude) but I can't stand that guy.

He'll help win more games. And annoy opposing fans.

I prefer Humphries over Dalembert because he's younger, and there's a better chance of a longterm future with him.

If you can think of any other good young big that's a FA this year, I'd be all for it.

[Eze]

He's like a shittier Chuck Hayes to me - we'd have to get rid of a big man by bringing him in. I know you'd wanna get rid of Hickson :heehee: but I don't see anybody we'd move to bring him in. Though, I'd take him I guess if Hayes' heart issue is serious.

[Gunshot]

A good defending and rebounding team is all I can ask

[Eze]

I think we'll be a good rebounding team - better defending, but, that's not difficult from last year.

[ctba]

I think we'll be a good rebounding team - better defending, but, that's not difficult from last year.

LOL and last year was one of the better years in a while

[nuraman00]

He's like a shittier Chuck Hayes to me - we'd have to get rid of a big man by bringing him in. I know you'd wanna get rid of Hickson :heehee: but I don't see anybody we'd move to bring him in. Though, I'd take him I guess if Hayes' heart issue is serious.

We wouldn't have to get rid of a big man. Just add one more guy to the roster (Dalembert, Humphries, AK, whomever) and let Westphal figure out the optimal lineups and rotations. Just add more talent.

If there's a logjam, it's Westphal's job to figure out whom the best players are.

[nuraman00]

One other thing with both Hickson and Thompson: They're both on the last year of their rookie contract. It's unlikely both will be back. It's a little annoying knowing that one of the two won't be here past a year. Partially because they're not good enough to start, so they'd only be a backup. I'm hoping to get as much of a future core as possible, and so that's another reason why I'd rather just bring in a new FA big man that will be here for 2-3 years.

[Eze]

We wouldn't have to get rid of a big man. Just add one more guy to the roster (Dalembert, Humphries, AK, whomever) and let Westphal figure out the optimal lineups and rotations. Just add more talent.

If there's a logjam, it's Westphal's job to figure out whom the best players are.

That's a lot of body for 48 min. Cousins, Hayes, Hickson, Thompson and another player like Daly/Hump, AK who would want 28-30 a game? None of them outside of AK can play SF, just don't see how that works.

[nuraman00]

That's a lot of body for 48 min. Cousins, Hayes, Hickson, Thompson and another player like Daly/Hump, AK who would want 28-30 a game? None of them outside of AK can play SF, just don't see how that works.

It would be like the SF rotation was last year. Between Greene, Casspi and Garcia, only two were in the rotation for a stretch of games.

Westphal would figure out who the best bigs were.

Let's say Cousins, Hayes, Hickson, and AK. Then Thompson would sit for a stretch of games.

[nuraman00]

I also think the FA class this year is more attainable than next year, hence another reason for wanting to make a move.

[DCKingsFan]

So is Hayes out for the season? If so, the FC just got much thinner...

[nuraman00]

So is Hayes out for the season? If so, the FC just got much thinner...

No one knows.

[bloatedmaniac]

Hopefully Hayes case is nothing serious. With the Kings luck you never know, but its very possible that he will be fine for the short/long term and be able to play out the season.

I guess with the painful, heartbreaking, and senseless signing of Outlaw we can formally bury this thread until next year when the Kings once again sign some worthless craphead to make the minimum. Screw Petrie and the Maloofs.

[DCKingsFan]

Cosign

[bloatedmaniac]

With Hayes failing his physical and contract being voided its time to reopen discussions here as they are below the minimum once again. With need for an established big....Humphries, Dalembert, and AK are still available. May they sign one of them short term, and not hear how the Kings brought back Mikki Moore on a 5 year - $40M deal to meet the cap.

[Eze]

Whomever takes a 1 year, 10 million dollar deal - I'm good with. If Petrie signs Humph or Dally to some retarded ass 3 year, 30 million dollar contract I quit.

[Gunshot]

Petrie is famous for retarded contracts

[EvansCousinsDUO]

At this point I'm not too worried about who we're going to be signing because I think we will be making a lot of moves via trades,. especially when he realizes salmons needs to be rid off as well as garcia.

[DCKingsFan]

I would be good with offering Dalembert the same contract as Hayes... thoughts?

[Eze]

Sam would laugh at us. He's been holding out for something like a 3 year, 30 million dollar deal. He'd just go to Miami and play for small money than Sacramento for Hayes money.

I'm guessing if Sam comes back, it's on a one year deal for something like 9-10 million.

[nuraman00]

I would be good with offering Dalembert the same contract as Hayes... thoughts?


Sam would laugh at us. He's been holding out for something like a 3 year, 30 million dollar deal. He'd just go to Miami and play for small money than Sacramento for Hayes money.

I'm guessing if Sam comes back, it's on a one year deal for something like 9-10 million.

Agree. Dalembert wouldn't accept a Hayes-type contract for the Kings. He could just go to Houston for the same money.

[Gunshot]

I don't think Sam wants to go thru this again next year...a year older
he wants 3 years I'm guessing
probably 27-30 million if you want him

[Eze]

It should tell Sam something that the Rockets, who are starting Jordan Hill at center, don't deem him worthy of that.

Don't do it, Petrie.

[Gunshot]

We don't know that..
The Rockets may have already offered him 30 million with Sam wanting 39
he has been making 18 million the last few years

[Eze]

Well, they did say this morning that they're moving on "for now" from him. Think the max they could have offered him (given their space) is about 9 per year, so, either he's overvaluing himself or they're not offering anything close to that.

[Gunshot]

Well, they did say this morning that they're moving on "for now" from him. Think the max they could have offered him (given their space) is about 9 per year, so, either he's overvaluing himself or they're not offering anything close to that.

yah

[Eze]

He literally has no place left to go. New York is filled up. Dallas too. Miami spent their MLE. Houston thinks he's too expensive. Nuggets don't need a C. Sacramento's his only option pretty much, which is lolz for a guy who had great opportunities two weeks ago.

[bloatedmaniac]

At this point I'm not too worried about who we're going to be signing because I think we will be making a lot of moves via trades,. especially when he realizes salmons needs to be rid off as well as garcia.

See the problem is, you really can't trade them without taking back a horrible contract in exchange. The players who are tradable are Jimmer, Cousins, Tyreke and I'm sure we don't want to trade them. The rest have very little value or negative value.

As for Dalembert, he is pulling a Bonzi Wells. He had chances, wanted more, and now he has none. He should of been happy to have been overpaid so much these past few years and taken a solid deal. I could live with the Kings overpaying him for 1-year. He might not take it, but he really isn't getting anything much better for more years.

[Eze]

I wouldn't be too unhappy if the Kings dangled Evans, just to see what type of reaction they'd get...

[Gunshot]

He literally has no place left to go. New York is filled up. Dallas too. Miami spent their MLE. Houston thinks he's too expensive. Nuggets don't need a C. Sacramento's his only option pretty much, which is lolz for a guy who had great opportunities two weeks ago.

never say never....seen this too many times
some team comes out of left field

Sac could still be lured to a sign and trade

[Eze]

Oh, well I was talking straight free agent signing options. I'd be more than happy with a S&T - but balls in our court for that.

[EvansCousinsDUO]

Lol Dalembert probably wanted a tyson chandler type contract.

[bloatedmaniac]

Lol Dalembert probably wanted a tyson chandler type contract.

He was looking for 3 years around $12M per. Didn't want a paycut from his previous contract. Pretty deluded for a guy that had pathetic numbers last year....and medicore most of his career. I'd like him back, as there are no current options better but not at what he wants. Now that Humphries signed with the Nets (1y, 8M) there is no place for Sac to go.

Once again....the Kings under the minimum salary cap can lead to very very stupid things. I'd take Dalembert over most things the kings might do. Its a scary situation with Petrie/Maloofs calling shots.

[Eze]

I'd give an extra million a year to AK-47 right now in addition to what they were already offering.

[prostacker]

Dissapointed Hayes isn't going to be a part of the team I thought his leadership and defensive prowess were going to be perfect on this team. I think it opened the door for Donte,JT,and Hickson to see which, if any are worth keeping around. The kings have more talent from top to the bottom of their roster than any point in the last 5 years. I think this offseason they have tried to improve the team don't really have any complaints as a fan. They have tried. I think this years Kings are going to be far more entertaining to watch than at any point over the last several years. There's finally talent on the roster to make a trade that benifits the team instead of a salary dump.

[Gunshot]

Just asked Petrie about Dalembert. Said team "would love" to have him back there's no deal in place yet.

“Something like that is always (possible),’’ Dalembert said of possible one year deal and one year with player option with Kings.

[Gunshot]

yeeeeep.....stars are lining up

[Gunshot]

Samuel Dalembert just told me if all goes as planned he will re-sign with Sacramento.

[Gunshot]

start writing it up Eze

[Eze]

Ugh. What a shitty offseason.

[Gunshot]

For me....Dalambert was essential
The team got better IMO

better defense....better athletes

[Eze]

They're better, but they had 25 million in cap space and added.....Travis Outlaw?

It's the same team we had after the draft. Kinda sad.

[Gunshot]

JImmer, Travis and JJ are all looking really good
Thomas too

they are better

[Eze]

Just not enough for what I was hoping for. I was hoping for a pretty significant turnaround - maybe just fall short of the 8th seed. I don't think we have any realistic chance at anything close to that.

[Gunshot]

Blazers to step back

[bloatedmaniac]

Just not enough for what I was hoping for. I was hoping for a pretty significant turnaround - maybe just fall short of the 8th seed. I don't think we have any realistic chance at anything close to that.

I can understand your feelings and sympathize. The Maloofs are standing pat on long term solutions until an arena deal is formed, and most big named free agents want to play with stars. That leaves the team out in the cold. Albiet, they could of done a shit ton better this offseason than Hayes, Outlaw, and nothing.

Just remember, the best is yet to come. Tyreke, Cousins, Jimmer, Honeycutt, Thomas all have a learning curve to go through to get to their potential. If they all live up to expectations or exceed them it'll be huge. With Tyreke and Cousins the team might have two home grown stars in the making. Maybe Jimmer can be a stud too. If they suck this year, they get another high pick, still lots of cap space, and the arena situation should be resolved leading to possible legit additions.

[Gunshot]

I'm not exactly sure what you guys expected....IMO they did okay without killing their cap space for decades
..maybe you don't remember, but the Kings were pretty decent at the end of last year with Dalambert and Marcus

[bloatedmaniac]

Yep they were about a .500 team toward the end of the season and played well against good teams. Dalembert might be back soon, to add more size and depth. Right now, this team is far from complete but they have a nice mix of talent. The kids of looked good so far, and even JJ has looked better and stronger. They might not be a playoff team, but the youth gives up to change in the very near future.

[EvansCousinsDUO]

Yep they were about a .500 team toward the end of the season and played well against good teams. Dalembert might be back soon, to add more size and depth. Right now, this team is far from complete but they have a nice mix of talent. The kids of looked good so far, and even JJ has looked better and stronger. They might not be a playoff team, but the youth gives up to change in the very near future.

I agree with you we have so much talent if we just get the chemistry right everything will fall into place. I can tell a lot of our guys are putting in a lot of effort. Today for example Tyreke after not doing well offensively went insane on defense blocking shots and contesting everything. Cousins starting taking charges and doing everything he can on defense after failing on offense. Our team is putting a lot of effort and with only 2 games played I think we can only improve from here on out.

[Blood Brother]

I would have liked more but Sac just isn't too appealing for a lot of these FA's. Just how it is. I'll welcome Daly back. Gives this team some better D and helps with their rebounding game which is never a bad thing

it is what it is. Need to hope for continued improvement from the young guys. I'm legit excited for perhaps contending for a playoff berth this year

the black uni's will make them better(seriously, so glad black is back)

[nuraman00]

I would have liked more but Sac just isn't too appealing for a lot of these FA's. Just how it is. I'll welcome Daly back. Gives this team some better D and helps with their rebounding game which is never a bad thing

it is what it is. Need to hope for continued improvement from the young guys. I'm legit excited for perhaps contending for a playoff berth this year

the black uni's will make them better(seriously, so glad black is back)

I just wish they still made jerseys that said "Sacramento" in the front. Like the Black version of the purple ones from 2002-2003 until 2007-2008.

[BosnianBaller_]

yeah i really don't blame the kings for not spending. they don't know what is going to happen with the franchise. im a big florida marlins fan and this reminds me of their situation. the franchise had a big issue for a couple years about their ballpark and finally when they got a new financed ballpark they were able to use alot of their new revenues on revamping the team. i wouldn't be surprised if this is what happens to the kings. really this season there weren't any free agents worth shelling big bucks for, no super-star type players only 2nd tier quality. i want dalembert back just for his mere presence when players drive to the hoop

[ctba]

It's not like the big stars are going to come to sactown in free agency Eze

[Eze]

Didn't say they were.

But you're happy and content with a re-signed Thornton, re-signed Dalembert and the addition of Travis Outlaw for four years? Go ahead, I'll wait.

[DCKingsFan]

yeah i really don't blame the kings for not spending. they don't know what is going to happen with the franchise. im a big florida marlins fan and this reminds me of their situation. the franchise had a big issue for a couple years about their ballpark and finally when they got a new financed ballpark they were able to use alot of their new revenues on revamping the team. i wouldn't be surprised if this is what happens to the kings. really this season there weren't any free agents worth shelling big bucks for, no super-star type players only 2nd tier quality. i want dalembert back just for his mere presence when players drive to the hoop

Or third tier players

[DCKingsFan]

So, how much exactly do they have to spend? And by when?

[nuraman00]

So, how much exactly do they have to spend? And by when?

Hey DCKingsFan (http://kingsforum.net/live/member.php?94-DCKingsFan). Wow, you're posting late! Are you in PST? Or still in EST?

[nuraman00]

So, how much exactly do they have to spend? And by when?

They have to spend $8.2 M by the season's end. But there's better players available now, then will be later, so they should try for some of them.

The 2012 FA class isn't as good. That's why I want to spend it this year. This year, you had good 2nd tier players like Chandler, Nene, Marc Gasol, AK, Humphries, Jordan, Jamal Crawford, David West. Hayes, for his contract, was a good fit too.

Caron Butler looks better than I thought.

I'm not saying all of them were great contracts, but if you could have gotten a 3 year deal for some of them, or 4 year deal for others, then you have to go for it. Especially since the minimum payroll will be raised, and the Kings would probably have Thompson and/or Hickson's salaries coming off the books this year. Humphries, West ended up betting good contracts. Gasol, I'm a little iffy on but at least try. Jordan, I don't like as much, but his contract is fair. West had a great 2 year contract.

2012 FA class is much worse, isn't as deep IMO. The team needs to add some FAs or get someone good via trade. You don't just improve on draft picks.

AK is still out there, he would be a good fit for 2-3 years. Otherwise, this team will probably play uneven halves in games IMO, whereas they had the potential to do better.

[sf giants r the best]

So, how much exactly do they have to spend? And by when?


The floor is $49 million and the Kings are at about $40.

I think they should just throw big money at Kirelinko for a short deal

[bloatedmaniac]

I think the King's already have thrown big money toward AK, he just doesn't care. Maybe they do need to go crazy and offer something like $11-$12M. Right now, $8M+ is a lot of ground to cover and its costed the Kings for merely settling for the cap early with low tier players. Now unless they take on a really big expiring contract in exchange for a mystery second rounder in 2058, they got to overpay someone really bad as the market is dry. Maybe overpay KMart when he comes back to the States in March. All in all, this is what I was afraid of. Cheap owners, and a GM that values scrubs needing to spend money in a dead market.

[sf giants r the best]

Thats what I mean, BIGGER money.

And on the trade market, Antwan Jamison? Andre Iguodala?

[Eze]

I wanna be the lucky c-level player who cashes in on a 1 year, 8 million dollar deal from the Kings because they're forced to spend. lol

[ctba]

Didn't say they were.

But you're happy and content with a re-signed Thornton, re-signed Dalembert and the addition of Travis Outlaw for four years? Go ahead, I'll wait.


so who is out there then you would add?

[Eze]

so who is out there then you would add?

Nobody, now. lol

I'd do AK, but, even then that's not enough. I did like the Hayes addition, but, it's a bit inexcusable to not get something for Dalembert. I mean jesus, Houston's sitting on a 7.5 million dollar trade exception. That would have been nice to have.

I think we're all tired of the c-level players we keep getting. I know I am.

[nuraman00]

Thats what I mean, BIGGER money.

And on the trade market, Antwan Jamison? Andre Iguodala?

Hickson for Iguodala? They could put Young at SF. Then keep the ball in Holiday's hands more.

I don't know what they're going to do, other than try to resign Hayes.

[Gunshot]

pretty much best to wait till after All-star break now....unless they can get Hayes back

[Gunshot]

Kings are rumored to be looking at this guy
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nba/players/full/3205.png&w=350&h=254
Kyrylo Fesenko (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3205/kyrylo-fesenko)

[bloatedmaniac]

Nobody, now. lol

I'd do AK, but, even then that's not enough. I did like the Hayes addition, but, it's a bit inexcusable to not get something for Dalembert. I mean jesus, Houston's sitting on a 7.5 million dollar trade exception. That would have been nice to have.

I think we're all tired of the c-level players we keep getting. I know I am.

Inexcusable? They signed him within their cap means. Its not like Petrie can call the Rockets and tell them to be stupid enough to give Dalembert more money so the Kings can get into a sign and trade. Kings have zero control in that matter. Also a trade exception for a team $20M below the cap is useless. They don't need it to acquired another player and they can swallow a huge contract creating an exception of their own for another team.

[Eze]

Inexcusable? They signed him within their cap means. Its not like Petrie can call the Rockets and tell them to be stupid enough to give Dalembert more money so the Kings can get into a sign and trade. Kings have zero control in that matter. Also a trade exception for a team $20M below the cap is useless. They don't need it to acquired another player and they can swallow a huge contract creating an exception of their own for another team.

I wouldn't call a trade exception useless to an under the cap team. If you're a team looking to move a player, are you going to want a Francisco Garcia back or a trade exception? Yes, the Kings could create their own but assets are assets and given the new rules, you're going to be close to the cap (if not over) almost every year. In four months time, maybe the Kings don't have that available cap space to create their own exception at the deadline and there is a player within that 7.5 frame they could have had. To me, assets are assets - they just lost one for nothing.

Dalembert's agent said that he had explored sign and trades with the Kings - now granted, I don't want crap back (and who knows what the offers were) - but the Kings opted to keep him in their back pocket and it backfired. They're pretty lucky Hayes doesn't harbor hard feelings (or hasn't shown to yet).

[bloatedmaniac]

I wouldn't call a trade exception useless to an under the cap team. If you're a team looking to move a player, are you going to want a Francisco Garcia back or a trade exception? Yes, the Kings could create their own but assets are assets and given the new rules, you're going to be close to the cap (if not over) almost every year. In four months time, maybe the Kings don't have that available cap space to create their own exception at the deadline and there is a player within that 7.5 frame they could have had. To me, assets are assets - they just lost one for nothing.

Dalembert's agent said that he had explored sign and trades with the Kings - now granted, I don't want crap back (and who knows what the offers were) - but the Kings opted to keep him in their back pocket and it backfired. They're pretty lucky Hayes doesn't harbor hard feelings (or hasn't shown to yet).

For starters, how are the Kings not going to have the available cap space when they don't spend money? They still will have over $14M+ when Hayes comes back. If the Lakers offered Gasol to us for a second round pick the Kings can make the trade with the free cap space it already has, thus creating an exception for the Lakers. Thats all without having to give up another actual contract like a Cisco. They have more space available than any team in the league right now and their roster is now completely set. If they sign AK, they'd dump Cisco with amnesty while still having more free cap then any other team. If midseason rolls around, they can get any player available without the need for an exception.

Now back to the big question: Why the hell would the Rockets give the Kings the trade exception or anything else for Dalembert. They signed the guy with available cap room without having to make any moves to accomodate his contract. If Petrie called them and offered them a sign and trade, they'd laugh their asses off. They needed no help to sign him, so the Kings had 0 leverage to get anything.

[Eze]

For starters, how are the Kings not going to have the available cap space when they don't spend money? They still will have over $14M+ when Hayes comes back. If the Lakers offered Gasol to us for a second round pick the Kings can make the trade with the free cap space it already has, thus creating an exception for the Lakers. Thats all without having to give up another actual contract like a Cisco. They have more space available than any team in the league right now and their roster is now completely set. If they sign AK, they'd dump Cisco with amnesty while still having more free cap then any other team. If midseason rolls around, they can get any player available without the need for an exception.

Now back to the big question: Why the hell would the Rockets give the Kings the trade exception or anything else for Dalembert. They signed the guy with available cap room without having to make any moves to accomodate his contract. If Petrie called them and offered them a sign and trade, they'd laugh their asses off. They needed no help to sign him, so the Kings had 0 leverage to get anything.

Kings are going to be at 85% of the cap at minimum - you never know what will happen during the season. That's going to leave the Kings with at minimum just under $50 million bucks. So at max, you're going to be floating around with 8 million bucks to spend (essentially that 7.5 trade exception Houston has). Acquire somebody in a trade though, who chances are will be making more money than the asset(s) you traded out given the Kings low salary figures and that cap space dwindles to less than that 8 million. In that scenario, I'd like to have a trade exception in my back pocket. Doesn't mean it would get used, maybe it does - maybe it doesn't, but it's an asset.

As far as the amnesty Cisco thing, they have to wait until next season to do that - amnesty is done for the year. So if the Kings DO sign AK (lets say for 9), along with Chuck at 6, they're looking at a payroll of about 59 million dollars - if they opt to not sign AK, that's just over 50 at the minimum. So with AK on the roster, they have no cap space - making the TE very useful to them. If they don't sign AK, the TE isn't as useful, but is very useful if at some point they traded for somebody during the season (at least to me) as it gives the more flexibility to acquire another body if they so desire, something they'd be out of luck in doing by using their own "trade exception" with their small left over cap space in that scenario.

As far as the Rockets and their TE, it's Petrie's job to the put the Kings in the best position he could so if he had intentions to sign Hayes, Dalembert should have been moved prior to that rather than be kept in his back pocket. Granted, Dalembert probably didn't make the S&T process very easy given his demands, but you have to come away with something especially given the demand for big men this offseason. Even if it was JJ Barea as was rumored, take it. I like assets. They can always be used or flipped.

And as I said, Dalembert should have been moved before his rights were denounced, giving whatever team he was going to full bird rights as now he had none going into Houston (or wherever he would have went). As a GM, I'd prefer a player have bird rights for future situations. Houston should have used their cap space to sign somebody, and then made a trade with Sacramento for Dalembert using the TE, giving them the maximum potential of their cap space - but they can still do that by using it to trade for another player of course as well, but given the TE and salary were so similar it fit well.

My initial point wasn't so much about Houston's TE as it was botching the ability to use Dalembert as a asset, which we didn't. We lost him for nothing and I'm not really buying that as good "GMing" on Petrie's part.

[nuraman00]

Kings are going to be at 85% of the cap at minimum - you never know what will happen during the season. That's going to leave the Kings with at minimum just under $50 million bucks. So at max, you're going to be floating around with 8 million bucks to spend (essentially that 7.5 trade exception Houston has). Acquire somebody in a trade though, who chances are will be making more money than the asset(s) you traded out given the Kings low salary figures and that cap space dwindles to less than that 8 million. In that scenario, I'd like to have a trade exception in my back pocket. Doesn't mean it would get used, maybe it does - maybe it doesn't, but it's an asset.

As far as the amnesty Cisco thing, they have to wait until next season to do that - amnesty is done for the year. So if the Kings DO sign AK (lets say for 9), along with Chuck at 6, they're looking at a payroll of about 59 million dollars - if they opt to not sign AK, that's just over 50 at the minimum. So with AK on the roster, they have no cap space - making the TE very useful to them. If they don't sign AK, the TE isn't as useful, but is very useful if at some point they traded for somebody during the season (at least to me) as it gives the more flexibility to acquire another body if they so desire, something they'd be out of luck in doing by using their own "trade exception" with their small left over cap space in that scenario.

As far as the Rockets and their TE, it's Petrie's job to the put the Kings in the best position he could so if he had intentions to sign Hayes, Dalembert should have been moved prior to that rather than be kept in his back pocket. Granted, Dalembert probably didn't make the S&T process very easy given his demands, but you have to come away with something especially given the demand for big men this offseason. Even if it was JJ Barea as was rumored, take it. I like assets. They can always be used or flipped.

And as I said, Dalembert should have been moved before his rights were denounced, giving whatever team he was going to full bird rights as now he had none going into Houston (or wherever he would have went). As a GM, I'd prefer a player have bird rights for future situations. Houston should have used their cap space to sign somebody, and then made a trade with Sacramento for Dalembert using the TE, giving them the maximum potential of their cap space - but they can still do that by using it to trade for another player of course as well, but given the TE and salary were so similar it fit well.

My initial point wasn't so much about Houston's TE as it was botching the ability to use Dalembert as a asset, which we didn't. We lost him for nothing and I'm not really buying that as good "GMing" on Petrie's part.

Dalembert's cap hit was $19M. They had to renounce him to have the cap room to sign Chuck Hayes.

Dalembert didn't appear close to signing with a team, as of 12/09, when they renounced him.

[Eze]

I know?

I think Dalembert would have probably preferred the 1 year lucrative offer Cuban was rumored to be offering (which the Kings could have done before renouncing him) instead of the Rockets offer, but JMO.

[bloatedmaniac]

Kings are going to be at 85% of the cap at minimum - you never know what will happen during the season. That's going to leave the Kings with at minimum just under $50 million bucks. So at max, you're going to be floating around with 8 million bucks to spend (essentially that 7.5 trade exception Houston has). Acquire somebody in a trade though, who chances are will be making more money than the asset(s) you traded out given the Kings low salary figures and that cap space dwindles to less than that 8 million. In that scenario, I'd like to have a trade exception in my back pocket. Doesn't mean it would get used, maybe it does - maybe it doesn't, but it's an asset.

As far as the amnesty Cisco thing, they have to wait until next season to do that - amnesty is done for the year. So if the Kings DO sign AK (lets say for 9), along with Chuck at 6, they're looking at a payroll of about 59 million dollars - if they opt to not sign AK, that's just over 50 at the minimum. So with AK on the roster, they have no cap space - making the TE very useful to them. If they don't sign AK, the TE isn't as useful, but is very useful if at some point they traded for somebody during the season (at least to me) as it gives the more flexibility to acquire another body if they so desire, something they'd be out of luck in doing by using their own "trade exception" with their small left over cap space in that scenario.

As far as the Rockets and their TE, it's Petrie's job to the put the Kings in the best position he could so if he had intentions to sign Hayes, Dalembert should have been moved prior to that rather than be kept in his back pocket. Granted, Dalembert probably didn't make the S&T process very easy given his demands, but you have to come away with something especially given the demand for big men this offseason. Even if it was JJ Barea as was rumored, take it. I like assets. They can always be used or flipped.

And as I said, Dalembert should have been moved before his rights were denounced, giving whatever team he was going to full bird rights as now he had none going into Houston (or wherever he would have went). As a GM, I'd prefer a player have bird rights for future situations. Houston should have used their cap space to sign somebody, and then made a trade with Sacramento for Dalembert using the TE, giving them the maximum potential of their cap space - but they can still do that by using it to trade for another player of course as well, but given the TE and salary were so similar it fit well.

My initial point wasn't so much about Houston's TE as it was botching the ability to use Dalembert as a asset, which we didn't. We lost him for nothing and I'm not really buying that as good "GMing" on Petrie's part.

You can't use something as an asset who isn't an asset. Dalembert was not a restricted free agent where the Kings hold the cards and have some control. Dalembert and his agent choose where to go, when to go, and how much they want. Petrie could call Miami, Houston, and any other team but they'd balk at giving anything for someone with such absurd demands that Dal had. Dalembert did have some suitors early who were all quickly scared off by his demands then moved on to find other more obtainable players. There was nothing Petrie could of done and if they didn't renounce him they'd absorb an unneccessary cap hit for an increasingly immovable object. Most teams would require the Kings to take a stupid contract back anyway, not just a trade expection. It just wasn't financially reasonable. In the end Dal pulled a Bonzi Wells and had to take the last available deal which ironically was with Houston as well. The failure was on Dalembert, and Dalembert alone. For once the Kings didn't do a stupid thing.

As far as saying Houston should of used their cap to sign someone and just trade for Dal....well they are in a situation like the Kings were. They tried and got shut out of the free agent market. Its not like they were waiting on Dalembert all summer. He was just a case of getting a veteran center whose market crashed and nobody interested in his services.

Now if Cuban offered Dal a big one year deal, and Dal wanted it back then, I'd kick Petrie for not jumping on that. Dalembert though, was still wanting a longer deal. Then Odom came along anyway and if you have a choice between Dal and Odom.....he'd choose Odom any day of the week. Then the Kings would be stuck.

Yeah I forgot about the amnesty time period. I was expecting Garcia to be kicked if anything came around, but he is now a $6M cheerleader.

[Eze]

Agree to disagree. Just don't think Petrie handled it well. Don't think Dalembert made it easy on him either, in his benefit, but, I'm left largely unimpressed.

[bloatedmaniac]

Haha agreed. I hate Dalembert for that. Overall I think the offseason was a bit of the let down, when the Kings settled for Hayes (who I like & fine with), trading for Salmons, and signing Outlaw (this I hate so much). The Maloofs promised to be active, but their activity was limited to making the minimum which is a joke for a franchise to even be worrying about. Thats where Petrie and the Maloofs definately failed. I'm still excited for the season, though without expectations for anything good record wise as I want to see the growth of young players as thats where the team's destiny lies.

[nuraman00]

I know?

I think Dalembert would have probably preferred the 1 year lucrative offer Cuban was rumored to be offering (which the Kings could have done before renouncing him) instead of the Rockets offer, but JMO.

Hmm, possible. It's tricky because that's about the time the first Chris Paul trade failed. And given that the Mavs traded for Odom about that time, they're better off with Odom than Dalembert IMO.

There is just a lot of weird timing these past few weeks.

[nuraman00]

Yeah I forgot about the amnesty time period. I was expecting Garcia to be kicked if anything came around, but he is now a $6M cheerleader.

It seems that way every season, but Garcia still manages to have a stretch of the season where he gets playing time, and he plays well. He finds his way into the rotation. He's a pretty good player, so despite the logjam, his time will come.

[nuraman00]

Haha agreed. I hate Dalembert for that. Overall I think the offseason was a bit of the let down, when the Kings settled for Hayes (who I like & fine with), trading for Salmons, and signing Outlaw (this I hate so much). The Maloofs promised to be active, but their activity was limited to making the minimum which is a joke for a franchise to even be worrying about. Thats where Petrie and the Maloofs definately failed. I'm still excited for the season, though without expectations for anything good record wise as I want to see the growth of young players as thats where the team's destiny lies.

What's also disappointing is that there ended up being a couple of good contracts being handed out by other teams with low payrolls: The Pacers with David West, and the one year deal the Nets got for Humphries.

David West would have been a great fit here IMO. The one thing he doesn't do as well, rebound, wouldn't be a problem because the rest of the team is good at rebounding. Evans-Thornton-West-Cousins-Salmons would make the playoffs IMO. West has range on his shot too.

Nene, he's more valuable to Denver than the Kings IMO. Nene also doesn't rebound well, and has been in the league for 9 years and doesn't have much range on his shot. I'd rather have Hayes over Nene.

Chandler wouldn't have been a good fit either. This team would have made too many mistakes on defense for him to really matter.

So I don't mind not pursuing the latter two.

I'd still like to get AK. And let Petrie try to dump one of the redundant parts later. But the Kings aren't going to do that. Still, the market for AK is drying up, so either he plays for the Kings, Nets, or Russia. I'm pretty sure a team could get him on a two year deal now.

I just thought in this FA class, there were more options than either in 2010 or 2012.

[nuraman00]

Actually since the Nets traded for Okur, then it's either Sacramento or Russia for Kirilenko. But since the regular season starts in 3 days, I doubt he's coming to Sacramento.

[bloatedmaniac]

What's also disappointing is that there ended up being a couple of good contracts being handed out by other teams with low payrolls: The Pacers with David West, and the one year deal the Nets got for Humphries.

David West would have been a great fit here IMO. The one thing he doesn't do as well, rebound, wouldn't be a problem because the rest of the team is good at rebounding. Evans-Thornton-West-Cousins-Salmons would make the playoffs IMO. West has range on his shot too.

Nene, he's more valuable to Denver than the Kings IMO. Nene also doesn't rebound well, and has been in the league for 9 years and doesn't have much range on his shot. I'd rather have Hayes over Nene.

Chandler wouldn't have been a good fit either. This team would have made too many mistakes on defense for him to really matter.

So I don't mind not pursuing the latter two.

I'd still like to get AK. And let Petrie try to dump one of the redundant parts later. But the Kings aren't going to do that. Still, the market for AK is drying up, so either he plays for the Kings, Nets, or Russia. I'm pretty sure a team could get him on a two year deal now.

I just thought in this FA class, there were more options than either in 2010 or 2012.

I agree. The team was never going to be able to land top tier free agents but there was a lot of middle tier players signing managable contracts. West, I wouldn't want long term, but at 2 years he is a steal and a nice offensive compliment to Cousins. Humphries signed a 1 year deal, while Petrie locks Outlaw up for 4 years. Even Dal had to settle for a 2 year deal. Those short term arrangements would of been great for the Kings to get a reliable veteran player to augment and buy time for the young players on this team to develop. Next year after you get passed Howard/D-Will there really isn't much value in the free agent market. The secondary tier players aren't very attractive, and guys like Odom wouldn't want to finish their careers in Sac. You can easily see the team sitting around the minimum cap once again next season. Not that I want them to blow their cap space recklessly, I'd just rather have expensive and quality players like West for two years than mediocre players like Outlaw for several years.

[DCKingsFan]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7381599/new-jersey-nets-acquire-mehmet-okur-utah-jazz-draft-pick

Ugh!!!!!

[Eze]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7381599/new-jersey-nets-acquire-mehmet-okur-utah-jazz-draft-pick

Ugh!!!!!

That's okay. Eats up most of their cap space for AK.

[Eze]

Also, I'm not TOTALLY sure, but, I thought I heard something a few weeks back that today AK had to declare his opt out clause if he was going to return. Not 100% sure on it, but I recall somebody saying it.

[DCKingsFan]

I would rather have had Okur... a great compliment to Cousins and Evans on the inside. And we could definitely use the spacing. He shoots nearly .400 from from 3 point land.

Just saying....

[nuraman00]

I agree. The team was never going to be able to land top tier free agents but there was a lot of middle tier players signing managable contracts. West, I wouldn't want long term, but at 2 years he is a steal and a nice offensive compliment to Cousins. Humphries signed a 1 year deal, while Petrie locks Outlaw up for 4 years. Even Dal had to settle for a 2 year deal. Those short term arrangements would of been great for the Kings to get a reliable veteran player to augment and buy time for the young players on this team to develop. Next year after you get passed Howard/D-Will there really isn't much value in the free agent market. The secondary tier players aren't very attractive, and guys like Odom wouldn't want to finish their careers in Sac. You can easily see the team sitting around the minimum cap once again next season. Not that I want them to blow their cap space recklessly, I'd just rather have expensive and quality players like West for two years than mediocre players like Outlaw for several years.

Lol, very true. Now watch as Psycho-T and West combine for 54 points against the Kings.

I was at the game in which David West scored 40 points on Jason Thompson. He used his face-up game to make a series of driving moves. I've never seen anyone score more points in a game in-person, so I literally can't even imagine how on fire a person would have to be to score more points.

It's different when it happens in-person IMO. Leaves more of an impression.

[nuraman00]

I would rather have had Okur... a great compliment to Cousins and Evans on the inside. And we could definitely use the spacing. He shoots nearly .400 from from 3 point land.

Just saying....

Disagree. Okur is terrible at this point. No defense, doesn't rebound as well.

And the four shots he'd take off the bench wouldn't matter. Kings need more starting caliber players, not more bench players.

Okur does have a face-up game, when he chooses to use it. I watched a game a few years ago when he scored 28 points on Aldridge just by driving all game long. And he also scored 27 points on Jason Thompson that same year. That's the kind of versatility he had when he was on Detroit.

A rookie Derrick Favors had a TS% of .545 already, and I expect that to go up this year. Meanwhile, Okur's TS% is a career .560, something Favors could pass this year.

We'd see defensive plays like this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7nXZ4oIvi4

[nuraman00]

One thing I liked about that clip, on offense, is that Okur showed his face-up game again. He used a fake and drove a few steps to create some space. He did more than catch-and-shoot. Unfortunately, six seconds later, he makes Jazz fans forget about his made shot.

[DCKingsFan]

His D and rebounding were decent two years ago... last year he was hurt. Plus, his deal was for one year. Cousins/Hayes/Okur could have been pretty decent, no?

Do you think that Thompson > Okur? Or Hickson > Okur? Maybe you are right, maybe he will not return to form.

And the guards MUST get back on that play. No way do you expect any C to guard a PG on that play :)

[nuraman00]

His D and rebounding were decent two years ago... last year he was hurt. Plus, his deal was for one year. Cousins/Hayes/Okur could have been pretty decent, no?

Do you think that Thompson > Okur? Or Hickson > Okur? Maybe you are right, maybe he will not return to form.

I look at other players like Troy Murphy. Okur is 31 and Murphy is 30, I see them at the same stage of their career.

Also, this is how I rank Okur's seasons:

2006-2007: Was very good until the ASB, then tailed off. I was fine with his All-Star selection. He had been fun to watch in the 4th quarter of games this year.

2007-2008: Was bad until the ASB, then played well. He played well enough after the ASB for the season to be a success IMO. He averaged a double-double after the ASB.

2008-2009: Stats look ok, but he was very inconsistent. He had 16 games in which he shot below 35%. That's just too many. Especially from someone who's supposed to provide offense. So he was very "bust" in a lot of games IMO. And we're not just talking about an off shooting night around 41%. 35% is far to below his standards.

Just a few weeks after the aforementioned game in which he had 28 points on Aldridge, he had 7 points on 1-7 FG in a blowout loss to Portland. This in a game that had seeding implications. Crushing for Jazz fans.

2009-2010: Declined.

2010-2011: Mostly injured, only played 13 games. Had a TS% of .452 in the games he did play.


I think as backups, Thompson and/or Hickson are good, cheaper alternatives to Okur. They will provide the same level of impact.



Reason: watched the video

I love how you give reasons when you edit a post. You're the best.:)

BTW, so are you in PST time zone? Is that why I see you posting late at night, instead of posting "Yawn, I need to sleep"?

[bloatedmaniac]

Though it would only be for one year, I'm on the side of the fence that thinks Okur is on the decline and is starting to break down. Plus as Nura said, we need someone that can start or play big minutes which isn't Okur. I like AK-47 as he can play a couple positions, and his defense/rebounding are still very good. Any offense he provides is a bonus as like Hayes, defense is why you sign him. Signing AK though, will make me hate the signing of Outlaw even more as he'd be even more useless to this team.

[DCKingsFan]

Nope, still EST.

And your points are good ones on Okur. I guess a rotation of Hayes/Cuz/Thompson and Hickson is fine - don't see Whiteside getting many minutes.

[Gunshot]

Kings are done shopping
...put a bow on it

[nuraman00]

Kings are done shopping
...put a bow on it

Where do you think Kirilenko will sign?

[Gunshot]

I think he's happy playing in Russia
seemed to me the Kings moved on with Outlaw
....whom I like BTW

[nuraman00]

I think he's happy playing in Russia
seemed to me the Kings moved on with Outlaw
....who I like BTW

I guess that's how the Kings viewed it, Outlaw or Kirilenko.

It would have been interesting to see if the Kings had Kirilenko, Hayes, and Cousins, if each of them could average 2.0 assists a game each.

[Gunshot]

Kirilenko is a GREAT shot blocker and a good defender....I would rather have him than Outlaw
but what's done is done
Westphal has his work cut out figuring out who plays best together