Who should be playing right now.

[nuraman00]

DeMarcus Cousins
Marcus Thornton
Tyreke Evans (have to)
Isaiah Thomas
Francisco Garcia
Chuck Hayes
Jason Thompson (at least he's shooting .531)
Fredette (15 minutes unless he plays well, then more)
John Salmons (need a backup SF, and his FGAs have gone down, he's averaging less shots than Fredette now)
++++++++++

Hickson: If foul trouble

No Minutes:

Travis Outlaw
Donte Greene

[DCKingsFan]

Was this a rhetorical question or a statement :)

I agree either way... Starting Hickson was the final nail in the coffin for WestFAIL.

[KingsOwn19]

Salmons has been the worst player on the team. That's not me disliking Salmons. I expected him to be atleast one of our 5 best players, and he's easily been the worst on the team. Worse than Outlaw.

[Gunshot]

rather Dont'e play than Salmons

[DCKingsFan]

Either way, we should see some different rotations with Smart :)

[EvansCousinsDUO]

DeMarcus Cousins(~35minutes)
Marcus Thornton(35-40minutes)
Tyreke Evans (35-40minutes)
Isaiah Thomas (5-10minutes)
Francisco Garcia (10-15minutes)
Chuck Hayes (30-35)
Jason Thompson (15)
Fredette (15 maybe even 10 if he continues missing so much,his shooting has not been good,has to prove himself to get over 20mins)
John Salmons (25mins, if we do a trade and get a better defending SF such as luol deng, cut salmons minutes to around 10
Hickson: (20mins, his rebounding is exceptional, but needs to take less jumpers)

Greene should not see any minutes until he stops turning over the ball so much, and drastically improves his Bball IQ.
Outlaw should get only 5 minutes if any at all..he's missing WAY too much, especially open shots..come on now.

[nuraman00]

DeMarcus Cousins(~35minutes)
Marcus Thornton(35-40minutes)
Tyreke Evans (35-40minutes)
Isaiah Thomas (5-10minutes)
Francisco Garcia (10-15minutes)
Chuck Hayes (30-35)
Jason Thompson (15)
Fredette (15 maybe even 10 if he continues missing so much,his shooting has not been good,has to prove himself to get over 20mins)
John Salmons (25mins, if we do a trade and get a better defending SF such as luol deng, cut salmons minutes to around 10
Hickson: (20mins, his rebounding is exceptional, but needs to take less jumpers)

Greene should not see any minutes until he stops turning over the ball so much, and drastically improves his Bball IQ.
Outlaw should get only 5 minutes if any at all..he's missing WAY too much, especially open shots..come on now.

Great post.

[bloatedmaniac]

DeMarcus Cousins
Marcus Thornton
Tyreke Evans (have to)
Isaiah Thomas
Francisco Garcia
Chuck Hayes
Jason Thompson (at least he's shooting .531)
Fredette (15 minutes unless he plays well, then more)
John Salmons (need a backup SF, and his FGAs have gone down, he's averaging less shots than Fredette now)
++++++++++

Hickson: If foul trouble

No Minutes:

Travis Outlaw
Donte Greene

Staring:
Evans
Thornton
Hayes
Cousins
Cisco

Reserves:
Thomas - should be first guard off the bench unless we need to go big.
Salmons - can play 2 or the 3 when we need defense. Main sub for Cisco
Hickson - First big off the bench. Plays hard and is aggressive
Thompson - Second big off the bench. FG% is nice, but feels so passive, still hasn't learned not to take that extra dribble, lost a lot of rebounds this year, and will always lack confidence.
Fredette - Can come in when the offense is taking a nap, or we need a 3. His minutes should be cut in half and go to Thomas for now.

If Needed:
Donte -- Can get garbage time minutes or if defense at the end of quarters.

Don't bother dressing:
Outlaw

[Blood Brother]

Outlaw is soooo worthless to this team jeez. I hope with Smart at the helm that Cisco gets the minutes that Westphal was giving to Outlaw for no real reason

[Blood Brother]

Also Jimmer getting nearly 25 minutes per game to Thomas paltry 10 needs to change. I'm sorry but Thomas just does more for the team right now. I feel they are just playing Jimmer so much since he's their top pick from this draft and are trying to "sell" the team to the fans. Bigger name than Thomas but Thomas is just better right now

[nuraman00]

Staring:
Evans
Thornton
Hayes
Cousins
Cisco

Reserves:
Thomas - should be first guard off the bench unless we need to go big.
Salmons - can play 2 or the 3 when we need defense. Main sub for Cisco
Hickson - First big off the bench. Plays hard and is aggressive
Thompson - Second big off the bench. FG% is nice, but feels so passive, still hasn't learned not to take that extra dribble, lost a lot of rebounds this year, and will always lack confidence.
Fredette - Can come in when the offense is taking a nap, or we need a 3. His minutes should be cut in half and go to Thomas for now.

If Needed:
Donte -- Can get garbage time minutes or if defense at the end of quarters.

Don't bother dressing:
Outlaw

Agree. The only thing I like about Thompson's passiveness is that I feel that's an asset. I feel he stays out of the way. On a team with gunners like Thornton, Evans, Cousins, Salmons, Fredette, and Garcia to an extent, I like how Thompson just stays out of the way and doesn't try to force things. Hickson forces things, especially from beyond 10 feet, where he's shooting 25% (0.9-3.5).

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=J.J.%20Hickson

If there's ever a proper offensive system in place, and it feels like the rest of the team is forcing less shots, then I'll like Hickson's aggressiveness on offense more.

Agree, Thompson's rebounding is down this year. But rebounding is usually consistent across seasons, and he didn't play much in a few games. I'm sure he'll get back to his usual rebounding rate.

Thompson knows his role is only tip-in and put-backs, with maybe 1-2 attempts to create his own shot.

Hickson tries to force shots from beyond his range too often. I'd like it if he stuck more to transition buckets or tip-ins. In that area, he's better than Thompson at it (and better than Hayes).

[nuraman00]

Agree. The only thing I like about Thompson's passiveness is that I feel that's an asset. I feel he stays out of the way. On a team with gunners like Thornton, Evans, Cousins, Salmons, Fredette, and Garcia to an extent, I like how Thompson just stays out of the way and doesn't try to force things. Hickson forces things, especially from beyond 10 feet, where he's shooting 25% (0.9-3.5).

http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=J.J.%20Hickson

If there's ever a proper offensive system in place, and it feels like the rest of the team is forcing less shots, then I'll like Hickson's aggressiveness on offense more.

Agree, Thompson's rebounding is down this year. But rebounding is usually consistent across seasons, and he didn't play much in a few games. I'm sure he'll get back to his usual rebounding rate.

Thompson knows his role is only tip-in and put-backs, with maybe 1-2 attempts to create his own shot.

Hickson tries to force shots from beyond his range too often. I'd like it if he stuck more to transition buckets or tip-ins. In that area, he's better than Thompson at it (and better than Hayes).

Right now, this team does so many bad things on offense this feels like the worst qualities of the Nuggets from a few years ago, and the Warriors. I think Thompson's passiveness just brings more stability.

Basically, if you want to watch hair-pulling "why did they do that" offense, watch a game between the Wizards and Kings. Lol.

[DCKingsFan]

Right now, this team does so many bad things on offense this feels like the worst qualities of the Nuggets from a few years ago, and the Warriors. I think Thompson's passiveness just brings more stability.

Basically, if you want to watch hair-pulling "why did they do that" offense, watch a game between the Wizards and Kings. Lol.

Oh man, Wizards even more so... really fuggly

[kingraider412]

The Injury to Hayes could open things up for Hickson. We still need a point guard and maybe we will be able to trade for one by the deadline. This team not be able to run a set offense without one.

[bloatedmaniac]

Right now, this team does so many bad things on offense this feels like the worst qualities of the Nuggets from a few years ago, and the Warriors. I think Thompson's passiveness just brings more stability.

Basically, if you want to watch hair-pulling "why did they do that" offense, watch a game between the Wizards and Kings. Lol.

It can go either way with Hickson/JT and understand your points. I've been behind JT previously as I thought he could easily be a double/double player. Unfortunately I just don't like the fact he seems like he hasn't learned much at all, and when he lacks confidence he comes off so defeated in his body language.

[BosnianBaller_]

i really dislike salmons, he's is not the type of player we needed. he continuous looks for his shot instead of reading the play and giving it to the open guy. he needs to realize that tyreke/thornton/cousins are our 3 go to guys. and outlaw and greene should get minimal to zero minutes

[bloatedmaniac]

i really dislike salmons, he's is not the type of player we needed. he continuous looks for his shot instead of reading the play and giving it to the open guy. he needs to realize that tyreke/thornton/cousins are our 3 go to guys. and outlaw and greene should get minimal to zero minutes

Unfortunately Salmons is one of 12 players on this roster who fills the qualification of "he continuous looks for his shot instead of reading the play and giving it to the open guy". Our top 3 players are merely that because this roster isn't very good. They are wildly inconsistant. Give the ball to Tyreke and he'll mindlessly drive into 4 defenders. Give the ball to Thornton and he'll toss it up. Results may very, and can cause the offense to get even more sluggish.

I still hate Salmons though. Talent wise, he is a definite upgrade over Cisco/Greene but god almighty he has been beyond useless this season. Outside of a few moments, even his defense has been pathetic. Ugh to think him and Outlaw were our SF upgrades. Curse you AK47. Curse you Petrie for not being a good salesman.

[nuraman00]

Outside of a few moments, even his defense has been pathetic.

Pathetic, really? Do you need to watch Tim Thomas, Mike Bibby, or Shawn Bradley? Even someone like Millsap, while he tries, is completely ineffective. Millsap fouls a ton, still, and he plays like an undersized forward. He can't play "big" on defense. Even Rashard Lewis had his way with Millsap a few years ago.

I think Salmons defense has been ok, about what I expected. He hasn't been good on offense though, and Garcia hasn't played as well in limited minutes either.

They should be able to play a little better. If not, then they're basically last year's version of Ryan Gomes and Rasual Butler for the Clippers. Both SFs for them played a lot worse than their career numbers would suggest.


Curse you AK47. Curse you Petrie for not being a good salesman.

I do agree that getting FAs is a sales job. If you sell it, if you make them feel welcome, if you tell them how you're going to feature them in the offense, if you have current team members come over and help recruit, you can get some of them. Again, I point to Utah. Within a two year span, they had offer sheets by Maggette and Jason Terry signed (only for their original teams to match), and then the next year actually got Boozer and Okur. Sloan and O'Connor sold.

[ctba]

Hell BoJax needs to suit up

[nuraman00]

I thought the offense yesterday looked pretty good, there appeared to be more of an identity and there wasn't as much indecisiveness.

I do like how Fredette's minutes have been cut by 10-12 minutes per game. That's about right for now, until he cuts down on his long shots or turnovers.

I also liked how both Hickson and Thompson were driving to the basket and finishing. Hickson wasn't taking long jumpers. This is the Hickson I like more, when he's cutting or taking close shots.

Neither team played relentless defense.

I thought Smart coached a good game.

So I thought the team played to its strengths more, with their bigs and the guard did make their layups this time.

They also shot above 50%. I don't think they're going to cut down on the turnovers though, that's going to be a problem. Teams don't really improve on turnovers within the season. I remember tracking this with St3v0b during 2007-2008. They are who they are. The assist totals don't bother me as much if they're shooting well, which they did. The turnovers bother me, but it's going to be a lost cause. Even if they got a new PG, you can't fix all of the other players who turn it over.

Cousins will probably improve with turnovers, but don't know about Hickson.

I wonder how many games Cousins can have this year with 1 or less turnovers.

[Eze]

You know what annoys me? Evans lightly jogging back up court almost every time.

[ctba]

You know what annoys me? Evans lightly jogging back up court almost every time.


And the player he is supposed to be guarding get a dunk? Yah that is annoying.

[nuraman00]

You know what annoys me? Evans lightly jogging back up court almost every time.

I was really disappointed with his defense last season, not improving to where it needed to be. And he'd always just roam around, being a help defender, instead of actually guarding someone.

Yesterday, he made a good defensive possession in the first quarter, so I was getting excited. But then 3 of the next 4 possessions, he just stood there again.

[Eze]

I guess maybe it's just the fact that they've always been so vastly talented over their counterparts they don't feel obligated to do those things (not just Evans, but players like him) - it's just sad to see players with such talent though not give the type of effort players who have to give that effort to stay in the league, do.

[ctba]

Fredette does it a lot too. It pisses me off. I gotta say though Smart has them playing better already. Which isn't really saying anything since they were playing like a 5th grade basketball team just a week ago.

[Eze]

I have to look away when Jimmer's on defense or I get too frustrated. lol

I know it's not his fault and it's not that he doesn't give effort, but fuck he's consistently completely out of his rotation.

[DCKingsFan]

I called it :)

http://kingsforum.net/live/showthread.php?68-How-successful-do-you-think-Jimmer-Freddete-can-or-will-be

Well, actually only if he improves year over year. I think he will.

[ctba]

Fredette has the capability to be a great player. He just seems to timid and scared to take shots as he would be stepping on some other players shoes by doing so. He basically has to grow some NBA balls and play open

[bloatedmaniac]

Fredette has the capability to be a great player. He just seems to timid and scared to take shots as he would be stepping on some other players shoes by doing so. He basically has to grow some NBA balls and play open

Unfortunately he isn't too timid to take his 27 foot 3 point shots with 22 seconds on the shot clock.

[DCKingsFan]

I think for Fredette to become a great player he needs to first become an ok defender...

[nuraman00]

I think for Fredette to become a great player he needs to first become an ok defender...

Let's lower our standards. What does he have to do to become a below average starter?

[prostacker]

Jimmer needs to quit thinking so much out on the court and just play his game. He's going to be a real effective player when he just plays and not overthinks, I think smart is a perfect coach for someone like Jimmer he will have alot more freedom.

[nuraman00]

Unfortunately he isn't too timid to take his 27 foot 3 point shots with 22 seconds on the shot clock.

I agree. I want him shooting from the midrange more. And how about getting to the foul line? He must have watched himself on NBA Jam too many times and seen himself making 27 footers.

[DCKingsFan]

I would take a OK off the bench guy at this point. And that is going to take a season or two.

It is really hard to make the transition from college ball to the NBA when you don't have NBA athletisism. Every year there is another kid that comes out that the fans say is the next coming. You look at their athletisism and know they have a long way to go.

Can we put Fredette's mind and shot into Tyreke's body?

[prostacker]

I think you can make the same statement that there are guys who are great athletes who don't translate well to the NBA even though there athletism is so superier at the college level. There are plenty of guys with below level athletism who are good to great players. Confidence and basketball IQ are the two most important traits of a successful rookie campaign

[nuraman00]

Right now, I'm not as concerned with individual performances, as I am team issues. Shooting, defense, turnovers, rebounding are teamwide issues at this point.

[DCKingsFan]

Confidence and basketball IQ are the two most important traits of a successful rookie campaign

I would say confidence, basketball IQ, basketball skills and NBA athletisism.... I think without the last two the first two are moot

[nuraman00]

IMO, on average, 1/2 of any lottery picks are out of the league after about 6-7 years. Or they are 3rd stringers.

I think Evans can have at least a 6-7 year career, as a starter.

So with respect to that, he's not a bad pick. For example, from the 2004 draft, Livingston, Araujo, Luke Jackson, Robert Swift, Biedrins, Telfair, and Snyder are non-factors, out of the first 16 picks.

I just hope Evans actually improves. He's still going to be a starter in the league for a few more years. I'm just not sure how to build with him right now. Maybe Isaiah Thomas needs to start with him, to make the team flow better. He's close to being good, but still makes enough mistakes to make it hesitant to declare him a building block.

If he doesn't improve after his 3rd year, I'd consider trading him. But I want to give him this full 3rd year.

Still, it's rare that a 3rd year player who gets significant playing time is traded. Normally that's reserved for the Ronnie Brewer caliber players. Or Brandon Rush. Decent players, but players you don't really need to build around.

Evans is a little bit better.

I wonder how much better coaching could get out of him. It's not like this organization has hired Larry Brown, Paul Silas, Doug Collins, or even Mark Jackson.

I do agree that other players like Rose, Westbrook, and Tony Parker made more visible strides by their 3rd year. Kings can't afford to wait too long, because they've been bad for so long. The time for potential is running out, they need players who look ready.

[OZfan]

back to the original question who should be playing right now? How about Isaiah Thomas, saw he was 20 and 6 today. He plays with passion and seems fearless. Jimmer, dont know if hes spooked or what, but as I recall that pick could have gone towards Parker.

[BosnianBaller_]

demarcus should be playing every minute of every game. he has been a monster since returning to the team

[ctba]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-mlhIzm6B8s/TLxOSSYTA1I/AAAAAAAAEZo/BmAl4sJsAWw/s1600/demarcus-cousins-backpack.jpg

[nuraman00]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-mlhIzm6B8s/TLxOSSYTA1I/AAAAAAAAEZo/BmAl4sJsAWw/s1600/demarcus-cousins-backpack.jpg

Is that Greene?

[bloatedmaniac]

back to the original question who should be playing right now? How about Isaiah Thomas, saw he was 20 and 6 today. He plays with passion and seems fearless. Jimmer, dont know if hes spooked or what, but as I recall that pick could have gone towards Parker.

The Parker thing was a rumor without substance. They were shopping Hill, so unless they were blown away with a proposal (Cousins, Tyreke, 1st type thing) that would never happen.