I'm just going to say it.

[OZfan]

Jimmer and Salmons absolutly suck. Kemba Walker, Brandon Knight, or Kawai Leonard should have been the pick. Petrie is an idiot and should go.

[Lil' Penny]

Jimmer doesn't suck, he's got talent, he's just done an awful job at adjusting to the NBA

[PackfanMatt_12]

Jimmer isnt doing the one thing he had NBA talent at and that was shooting. Without him making shots he is useless

[nuraman00]

Jimmer isnt doing the one thing he had NBA talent at and that was shooting. Without him making shots he is useless

He shows potential to be a playmaker, with how his drives look. But Thomas is still a little better at it.

[PackfanMatt_12]

I would have preferred Knight over Jimmer but it wouldn't have dramatically changed our record

[cbkesq]

I would have preferred Knight over Jimmer but it wouldn't have dramatically changed our record

True but we wouldn't have had to trade for Salmons. The worst part of that trade was bringing back Salmons. Petrie should be fired for that alone. We could have drafted either Knight or Jimmer without getting him. If you could have let me choose 5 players in the league who would be horrible fits to come to the Kings (with the players on the roster back on draft day), Salmons would have been one of the 5, and our brilliant GM goes and trades DOWN to get him.

[nuraman00]

True but we wouldn't have had to trade for Salmons. .

Yes it still would have been done. You don't draft Knight, Walker, or Fredette and still have Udrih on your roster. They would never get any playing time if Udrih was still there. And if you look at what teams would want Udrih, most wouldn't. Most have either younger PGs that they need to develop, or a better starting PG.

Memphis is possibly the only team that could have used Udrih, but if they can barely afford to keep Mayo, then they wouldn't want Udrih's contract either.

Atlanta might have been another team, but if they wanted to keep a PG, they would have kept Crawford.

The trade wasn't to get Salmons, it was to get rid of Udrih so they could give playing time to Fredette/Knight/Walker, and Thomas.

Now, continuing to play Salmons is a different issue.

Straight up amnestying Udrih could have been a simpler solution, but then they would have needed to give a $25M a year contract to Chuck Hayes to reach the minimum.

[cbkesq]

Yes it still would have been done. You don't draft Knight, Walker, or Fredette and still have Udrih on your roster. They would never get any playing time if Udrih was still there. And if you look at what teams would want Udrih, most wouldn't. Most have either younger PGs that they need to develop, or a better starting PG.

Memphis is possibly the only team that could have used Udrih, but if they can barely afford to keep Mayo, then they wouldn't want Udrih's contract either.

Atlanta might have been another team, but if they wanted to keep a PG, they would have kept Crawford.

The trade wasn't to get Salmons, it was to get rid of Udrih so they could give playing time to Fredette/Knight/Walker, and Thomas.

Now, continuing to play Salmons is a different issue.

Straight up amnestying Udrih could have been a simpler solution, but then they would have needed to give a $25M a year contract to Chuck Hayes to reach the minimum.

Is Udrih's contract worse than Salmons'? And why can't Udrih be on the roster with Knight or Jimmer (didn't want Walker)? This team has zero PGs on the roster right now when most have at least two. As much as I hated Udrih (and you know my feelings about him), I would rather have him than Salmons. At least Udrih, Thornton, and Tyreke could somewhat co-exist. There is absolutely no way Salmons, Thornton, and Tyreke could, and everyone with any knowledge of the NBA knows that (except apparently Petrie). I would have drafted Brandon Knight, started him from day one (this team was not going to be a playoff team anyhow), and let Udrih come off the bench, playing about 20 mins a night. Being stuck with Salmons now is just so bad. He stinks, he shows no emotion, the fans don't like him (never did). Nothing positive whatsoever about him being on this team. Gallinari made him look like a D-league player, and Salmons made Gallinari look like an all star.

[cbkesq]

Here's one more statistic for everyone to chew on: Going into tonight's game, the Kings are on pace to have more turnovers than assists for the season. This has not been done in more than 30 years. But Petrie knows best, the Kings don't need a PG. Look at all the PGs that have entered the league over the past 3 years. Petrie had plenty of opportunities to grab one. Instead, he grabbed NONE (unless you count Isaiah Thomas).

[nuraman00]

Is Udrih's contract worse than Salmons'? And why can't Udrih be on the roster with Knight or Jimmer (didn't want Walker)? This team has zero PGs on the roster right now when most have at least two. As much as I hated Udrih (and you know my feelings about him), I would rather have him than Salmons. At least Udrih, Thornton, and Tyreke could somewhat co-exist. There is absolutely no way Salmons, Thornton, and Tyreke could, and everyone with any knowledge of the NBA knows that (except apparently Petrie). I would have drafted Brandon Knight, started him from day one (this team was not going to be a playoff team anyhow), and let Udrih come off the bench, playing about 20 mins a night. Being stuck with Salmons now is just so bad. He stinks, he shows no emotion, the fans don't like him (never did). Nothing positive whatsoever about him being on this team. Gallinari made him look like a D-league player, and Salmons made Gallinari look like an all star.

Playing Salmons is a different issue than trading for him. At this point in the season, the Kings should treat Salmons the same way they treated Marquis Daniels or Larry Hughes -- buy him out or not play him.

You mention Udrih, Thornton, and Tyreke coexisting, but you have to add in Knight. So that makes 4 guards for two spots, and that just can't happen, especially when you want to develop the rookie now. As opposed to Knight being on a playoffs caliber team and them bringing him along slowly, for example.

I lumped Knight, Fredette, and Walker together, to show that it isn't about Fredette, but about any rookie PG that would have been drafted. Having Udrih means having 4 guards, and having 4 guards means the rookie won't get the playing time, as coaches would opt to play Udrih over him. And then that doesn't even factor in Thomas, so make that 5 guards.

I personally wanted Walker over Fredette, but as I'm saying in those post, it isn't about which guard was drafted, but more about creating the playing time for two PGs in the draft, Evans, and Thornton.

Also, I don't know if you saw my post in Jimmer's Coming Out Party @ Can We Have Hawes' Back (http://kingsforum.net/live/showthread.php?268-Jimmer-s-Coming-Out-Party-Can-We-Have-Hawes-Back), post # 33, but I mentioned that since Detroit had two nationally televised games in April, I would try to watch him then.

But, as of now, Knight has a poor assist rate. 19.4%. Even Evans had 26.1% as a rookie, and has 23.1% this year. Also this year, since the Kings are the worst shooting team in the league, and the worst shooting team since 1961, they are losing a few assists when they miss shots.

I was looking forward to Salmons, but his problem isn't even his fit. His problem is he can't make shots. I thought his midrange game could help, but its not even existant. And I gave up on Salmons at around the 12-13 game mark, so about 1.5-2 weeks ago.

So if Udrih were still on the roster, then Evans, Thornton, and Udrih would have gotten the bulk of the minutes, leaving nothing for Knight and Thomas. Knight wouldn't have gotten 20 minutes a game with Udrih still on the roster, that's just not what coaches do when they have veterans.

Thomas has an assist % of 23.6%, better than Knight this year. (But Knight is a better scorer and 3-point shooter).

I also had other posts, such as Our Lil 5'8 PG Rocks @ Kevin Martin Has The Poops (http://kingsforum.net/live/showthread.php?276-Our-Lil-5-8-PG-Rocks-Kevin-Martin-Has-The-Poops), post # 52. Don't know if you read those, or if you had a response or any comments.

[nuraman00]

Here's one more statistic for everyone to chew on: Going into tonight's game, the Kings are on pace to have more turnovers than assists for the season. This has not been done in more than 30 years. But Petrie knows best, the Kings don't need a PG. Look at all the PGs that have entered the league over the past 3 years. Petrie had plenty of opportunities to grab one. Instead, he grabbed NONE (unless you count Isaiah Thomas).

Yes, that stat has been brought to the forefront the past few weeks.

Its not entirely explained by the lack of PG though, when they had more assists than turnovers last year. The bigger issue is why are the turnovers increasing? And its not just the guards that are turning it over, but the bigs too. Particularly Cousins and Hickson.

But Thornton too, he's a career 1.8 turnovers per 36 minutes player, and this year he's at 2.4%. His TO Rate went from 9.6% last year, to 12.4% this year.

Brandon Knight has a TO Rate of 20.9%, which is 3.6 per 36 minutes.

Is it coaching, or the players regressing? Because everyone is turning it over. Not just the guards.

Chuck Hayes, when he played, had a 14.2% rate, which is a little too high, even if he doesn't touch the ball that much.

[cbkesq]

Yes, that stat has been brought to the forefront the past few weeks.

Its not entirely explained by the lack of PG though, when they had more assists than turnovers last year. The bigger issue is why are the turnovers increasing? And its not just the guards that are turning it over, but the bigs too. Particularly Cousins and Hickson.

But Thornton too, he's a career 1.8 turnovers per 36 minutes player, and this year he's at 2.4%. His TO Rate went from 9.6% last year, to 12.4% this year.

Brandon Knight has a TO Rate of 20.9%, which is 3.6 per 36 minutes.

Is it coaching, or the players regressing? Because everyone is turning it over. Not just the guards.

Chuck Hayes, when he played, had a 14.2% rate, which is a little too high, even if he doesn't touch the ball that much.

Not to oversimplify it, but I just want a true PG on this team, one that can run the team and knows how to run a pick and roll play (assuming that we have bigs that can learn how to set picks and run the play too). The ability to get open shots in this league starts and ends with the ability to run a simple pick and roll. I learned how to run it playing high school basketball. It shouldn't be too hard for these guys to learn, yet I still see the guy with the ball not using the pick correctly, either not running his man into the pick, or making his move before the pick is set, or Tyreke's going the opposite way away from the pick (which he does almost all the time). Thomas is the closest thing to a PG that can run pick and roll on this team. The problem is he has a shoot first mentality, and always did at UW. We need a PG that doesn't care if he shoots at all, just run the team and get his teammates open shots.

[cbkesq]

Playing Salmons is a different issue than trading for him. At this point in the season, the Kings should treat Salmons the same way they treated Marquis Daniels or Larry Hughes -- buy him out or not play him.

You mention Udrih, Thornton, and Tyreke coexisting, but you have to add in Knight. So that makes 4 guards for two spots, and that just can't happen, especially when you want to develop the rookie now. As opposed to Knight being on a playoffs caliber team and them bringing him along slowly, for example.

I lumped Knight, Fredette, and Walker together, to show that it isn't about Fredette, but about any rookie PG that would have been drafted. Having Udrih means having 4 guards, and having 4 guards means the rookie won't get the playing time, as coaches would opt to play Udrih over him. And then that doesn't even factor in Thomas, so make that 5 guards.

I personally wanted Walker over Fredette, but as I'm saying in those post, it isn't about which guard was drafted, but more about creating the playing time for two PGs in the draft, Evans, and Thornton.

Also, I don't know if you saw my post in Jimmer's Coming Out Party @ Can We Have Hawes' Back (http://kingsforum.net/live/showthread.php?268-Jimmer-s-Coming-Out-Party-Can-We-Have-Hawes-Back), post # 33, but I mentioned that since Detroit had two nationally televised games in April, I would try to watch him then.

But, as of now, Knight has a poor assist rate. 19.4%. Even Evans had 26.1% as a rookie, and has 23.1% this year. Also this year, since the Kings are the worst shooting team in the league, and the worst shooting team since 1961, they are losing a few assists when they miss shots.

I was looking forward to Salmons, but his problem isn't even his fit. His problem is he can't make shots. I thought his midrange game could help, but its not even existant. And I gave up on Salmons at around the 12-13 game mark, so about 1.5-2 weeks ago.

So if Udrih were still on the roster, then Evans, Thornton, and Udrih would have gotten the bulk of the minutes, leaving nothing for Knight and Thomas. Knight wouldn't have gotten 20 minutes a game with Udrih still on the roster, that's just not what coaches do when they have veterans.

Thomas has an assist % of 23.6%, better than Knight this year. (But Knight is a better scorer and 3-point shooter).

I also had other posts, such as Our Lil 5'8 PG Rocks @ Kevin Martin Has The Poops (http://kingsforum.net/live/showthread.php?276-Our-Lil-5-8-PG-Rocks-Kevin-Martin-Has-The-Poops), post # 52. Don't know if you read those, or if you had a response or any comments.

I just looked at your mentioned posts and while I agree with you about the draft being a crapshoot, I would rather have Petrie gamble on available true PGs than 2s (that you are trying to turn into a PG like Douby), 3s, or 4s as he did in 2005, 2006, and 2008 (I actually liked the Hawes pick but we have nothing to show for that as he was dealt for nothing). The PG to me is the most important position on the court, and having one that can run your team can solve a lot of offensive issues. He has just flat out refused to draft a pure PG EVER (unless you count Jason Williams as a pure PG, which I do not). Jimmer is less of a PG than Knight. At least Knight played the position at UK and functioned as one. Jimmer was never a PG at BYU. He always had a score first mentality. I said it two years ago when all the Kings fans were slobbering over the athleticism of Tyreke and how he was abusing everyone in one on one workouts before the draft. There was a perfect chance to draft a pure PG in that draft, and Petrie decided to draft the guy that could play good one on one. He keeps trying to fit square pegs into round holes, when the round peg is sitting right in front of his face. I hope Kings fans finally see that unless you have a superstar on your team (ala the Lakers, Heat, Cavs when LeBron was there), a true PG is a must for success. I think most Kings fans right now would take Curry, Rubio, and even Holiday over Tyreke, and if not, they are living in the past. Tyreke's rookie year is not passing through that door again. Sad to say.

[nuraman00]

I just looked at your mentioned posts and while I agree with you about the draft being a crapshoot, I would rather have Petrie gamble on available true PGs than 2s (that you are trying to turn into a PG like Douby), 3s, or 4s as he did in 2005, 2006, and 2008 (I actually liked the Hawes pick but we have nothing to show for that as he was dealt for nothing). The PG to me is the most important position on the court, and having one that can run your team can solve a lot of offensive issues. He has just flat out refused to draft a pure PG EVER (unless you count Jason Williams as a pure PG, which I do not). Jimmer is less of a PG than Knight. At least Knight played the position at UK and functioned as one. Jimmer was never a PG at BYU. He always had a score first mentality. I said it two years ago when all the Kings fans were slobbering over the athleticism of Tyreke and how he was abusing everyone in one on one workouts before the draft. There was a perfect chance to draft a pure PG in that draft, and Petrie decided to draft the guy that could play good one on one. He keeps trying to fit square pegs into round holes, when the round peg is sitting right in front of his face. I hope Kings fans finally see that unless you have a superstar on your team (ala the Lakers, Heat, Cavs when LeBron was there), a true PG is a must for success. I think most Kings fans right now would take Curry, Rubio, and even Holiday over Tyreke, and if not, they are living in the past. Tyreke's rookie year is not passing through that door again. Sad to say.

You're discounting fans that wanted Rubio. There were about 1/2.

I could have listed several posters that wanted Rubio, earlier this summer. There were others what wanted Lawson or Holiday too. I mentioned what posters they were in one of the other threads.

And on a larger scale, Kings fans didn't want Evans. The pick was booed when announced at ARCO, and Gavin took the microphone and defended the pick, saying how Kings fans would see why the pick was made. There were several threads discussing draft prospects that summer, and I remember various opinions. It wasn't even a majority that wanted Evans. It was a minority.

So based on the at-large reaction from ARCO, fans didn't want Evans. And based on the poster opinions on the ESPN board, it was mixed between a few for Lawson and Holiday, and the majority for Rubio with some for Evans.

I personally wanted Evans for his defense. That's what I wanted most from the PG spot, defense. Evans hasn't delivered there. The offense was less important to me. Perimeter defense was what I wanted most, whether it was Harden, Holiday, Evans, or Rubio. I mention guards or wing players because it was a wing-heavy or guard heavy draft. Harden was my 2nd choice overall, but he was taken one pick earlier.

I think its more about building a team, than it is any one position, PG included. If Evans is on your roster, then you have to build a certain way, and this isn't working this year.

Pure PGs lose in the playoffs just as much as non-pure PGs, if the team isn't good enough.

Deron Williams' teams have won 4 series in 4 years (not counting last year because the Nets didn't make the playoffs).

Chris Paul's team has won one series.

Chauncey Billups has been to the conference finals 7 years, but lost 5 of those times.

Jason Kidd, in Phoenix, lost in the 1st round 4 of 5 times.

I didn't like the Fredette pick this year, both in terms of fit on the team, and other players available. From 2009, I'm in a wait-and-see mode about Rubio. Ridnour has been the one that runs the halfcourt offense. Rubio gets his assists on fast breaks. But Ridnour is the one that breaks down the defense. That initiates plays out of bounds.

I'm more interested in a PG that can run an offense in the halfcourt the way I like. For Curry, injuries aside, I don't want want his defense. And I don't like his fit as a PG either, makes it too hard to build with. Holiday, looked more promising last year. His assist rate has fallen off this year. He might run a team better than Evans, but in the end, if he plays like he has this year, its still not good enough.

Lawson - I'm in a wait-and-see. This is the first time he's had a chance to run a team. Right now, I think he's more of a uptempo PG than a halfcourt PG, but we'll see. I prefer Andre Miller's ability to run a team a lot more.

Beyond all of these draft picks though, I would have liked to give Sessions the starting job for one year, and see how good he can become. He's never gotten a chance to see what he can do, and I like what I've seen everytime he's been an injury fill-in. But I'd only commit 1 year in terms of a starting job to him. If the team didn't look good enough after a year, I would have searched for a replacement. But he's someone I wish the Kings would have either signed, or traded for, at some point. With all of this said, there's no reason the Kings couldn't have drafted a better PG this year and paired him with Evans.

As I said, I'm more about how the overall team looks than any one position. You can have the greatest PG and still be a lottery team if there are other holes. Maybe someone would say that Evans wouldn't be a good fit at SG or SF, and maybe they're right. But its not like he's a throwaway player, like Marcus Williams from NJ, etc. He might not be someone to keep though either.

[nuraman00]

I get your point about Petrie not having drafted a good PG, and yeah, that does appear to be a theme. But just as important is that he didn't possibly sign or trade for one like Sessions too.

And as I said, I place a greater emphasis in putting together the overall starting lineup, than any one position. There's oddly constructed teams that win the championship all the time, if they have the right pieces.

Based on the play this year, Petrie hasn't done a good job of putting together a starting lineup, of which Evans is a member. And the coaching staff hasn't gotten the perimeter defense that I expected, the past few years.

[cbkesq]

I get your point about Petrie not having drafted a good PG, and yeah, that does appear to be a theme. But just as important is that he didn't possibly sign or trade for one like Sessions too.

And as I said, I place a greater emphasis in putting together the overall starting lineup, than any one position. There's oddly constructed teams that win the championship all the time, if they have the right pieces.

Based on the play this year, Petrie hasn't done a good job of putting together a starting lineup, of which Evans is a member. And the coaching staff hasn't gotten the perimeter defense that I expected, the past few years.

I like Sessions too; think he is one of the most underrated players in the league.

Another point I wanted to raise about Petrie's draft choices, he seems to totally ignore basketball IQ when drafting players, which contradicts his earlier drafts/trades as Kings GM. Thompson is as clueless today as he was when he set foot on an NBA court 4 years ago. Tyreke has a low Bball IQ. Hawes to me had a decent Bball IQ but Petrie traded him inexplicably for nothing. I actually think Cousins and Jimmer have pretty good Bball IQs, but Cousins just needs to continue to tone down his emotional outbursts.

And in terms of putting together a starting lineup, I agree Petrie has done a poor job of doing so, but part of that is because there is not a PG on this team. How many teams are so thin at PG that they have to resort to throwing their 5'7" 2nd round draft pick into the fire way way way before he is ready? Most teams have at least two competent PGs that can run the team. Denver last night is a perfect example. They lose Lawson when the Kings are down 6 pts, insert Miller (and that Stone character in limited minutes), and proceed to blow the Kings off the floor. Minnesota is another (heck, they have three), the Clippers another, Indiana another, Chicago, OKC before Maynor got hurt, Dallas. Those are just off the top of my head. The Kings have none!

[Eze]

The only players that have shown any worth this year at a semi-consistent clip are a supposed malcontent who fell into the Kings lap because of his "issues" and the last pick of the most recent NBA draft. lol

JT gets props too for his improvement in efficiency, but, we know what he is and will be - and like cbkesq said, very little bball IQ for him.

[nuraman00]

For Thompson, I think he has decent IQ, just not offensive talent.

[nuraman00]

I like Sessions too; think he is one of the most underrated players in the league.

Another point I wanted to raise about Petrie's draft choices, he seems to totally ignore basketball IQ when drafting players,

Kevin Martin and Francisco Garcia have IQ. So did his trade for Songaila.

Dickau may have been meant for another team, but he had it too.

For Douby, I think his defense was a bigger detriment than his un-shotmaking on offense. He committed more off-the-ball fouls than anyone I can remember. Not sure if that's an indictment of his IQ, or his inability to play defense at the NBA level without fouling. I don't remember him not having IQ on offense. He just couldn't make shots. And no one wanted him picked.

[Eze]

I'd call Petrie a solid drafter - he doesn't strike out too much and did relatively well given the locale of his picks when the Kings were winning 50 games.

Very questionable FA signings though.

[nuraman00]

For Thompson, when he was drafted, I always saw him as a defensive player and a rebounder, not an offensive player. I think the mistake is being disappointed if he didn't improve on offense, which he didn't.

I had wanted him because of his defensive potential, but he doesn't have any defensive qualities, not even for a backup.

[nuraman00]

I'd call Petrie a solid drafter - he doesn't strike out too much and did relatively well given the locale of his picks when the Kings were winning 50 games.

Very questionable FA signings though.

Yeah, FA signings are worse. Moore is someone without talent, defense, offense, or IQ. He has it all!

[nuraman00]

There were no bigs drafted after Thompson that have IQ. Other than Ryan Anderson, but he would have been a horrible fit, and this is the only year he's done anything.

For wings and guards, George Hill, Goran Dragic, and Batum are the IQ Players.

[Eze]

Not sure if he can sustain it, but, seems like Hawes has come around - at least for a while - always thought he had talent but no desire for the game. Would have rather been at a political rally. lol

Looks like Doug Collins got through to him though.

[nuraman00]

Not sure if he can sustain it, but, seems like Hawes has come around - at least for a while - always thought he had talent but no desire for the game. Would have rather been at a political rally. lol

Looks like Doug Collins got through to him though.

Hawes is a little more consistent, but I think is rebounding will tail off. You usually don't get better at rebounding.

Stojakovic seemed to always rebound well for the next month AFTER being named an All-Star, but by the end of the season, his averages would be the same.

Also, if Hawes isn't going to be good enough to be a top two scoring option, I dont' see anything that special. Because that's what his greatest asset is, scoring.

I don't know if Hawes was inconsistent because he wasn't always mentally engaged, or if there was another reason. But after drafting Cousins, the Kings couldn't afford to find out. With him being due for a RFA in 2011.

He's on a 1 year contract.

I don't believe in the "contract year" theory, I've seen enough cases where a player's numbers have gone down too.

But I do think Philly could afford to invest more in him, given that they had a bleaker young frontcourt than the Kings.

And I can't think of many players who did go the 1 year route after their rookie contract, for them to actually become anything decent over the next 2-3 years.

At worst, he is a NBA player, yes. It's just that unless he's a surefire starting caliber player that can play 32-35 minutes a game, then you can find other players like him.

[Eze]

I'd be scared he'd eventually lose interest again - he just never seemed very passionate about it, but if they could get him on the cheap for a couple years, he's starting to look like a pretty solid investment. I always thought he had a pretty unique tool set, just, never really knew how to use it.

[nuraman00]

I'd be scared he'd eventually lose interest again - he just never seemed very passionate about it, but if they could get him on the cheap for a couple years, he's starting to look like a pretty solid investment. I always thought he had a pretty unique tool set, just, never really knew how to use it.

He's one of those players I think I'd like watching when he has a big scoring night. But I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable with his consistency for a full season.

What's interesting is that when I'd read other team boards, they'd say that using Hawes in the high post was "genius", and they liked his versatility there.

But on the Kings board, posters hated that. Lol.

[DCKingsFan]

I would say he is well above average drafting: http://www.82games.com/bestdraftingteams.htm


The last 5 years I would say he is well below average with his trades and FA signings.

I also believe that we need a veteran PG to run the offense. Sessions or Andre Miller would be nice.

[Eze]

Andre Miller essentially said he wouldn't come to a team like Sacramento :sigh:

[bloatedmaniac]

He's one of those players I think I'd like watching when he has a big scoring night. But I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable with his consistency for a full season.

What's interesting is that when I'd read other team boards, they'd say that using Hawes in the high post was "genius", and they liked his versatility there.

But on the Kings board, posters hated that. Lol.

Yeah that was always ironic. Hawes has almost no low post moves, but he does have range with his shot and the ability to move his ball. Having him on the high post was always the best case scenario.

As for people in their contract years, the time I subscribe to that theory is for people like Hawes. They have the talent, but no desire. Contract year comes, and all of the sudden they are good. They get their contract, and their numbers flake out as does their effort. Most don't qualify under this, and some can be coincidence as they are just entering their prime. I just would always rather error on the side of caution on dealing with people who have problems with listening, effort, conditioning or BB IQ. Hawes had issues with most of those.

For your comment about JT, I always thought of him as a double double guy with his biggest strength on the boards. I never thought of him right away as a defensive guy, but I was hoping with his size/mobility he'd be solid in that area. Unfortunately he is all but useless on D.

[nuraman00]

Yeah that was always ironic. Hawes has almost no low post moves, but he does have range with his shot and the ability to move his ball. Having him on the high post was always the best case scenario.

As for people in their contract years, the time I subscribe to that theory is for people like Hawes. They have the talent, but no desire. Contract year comes, and all of the sudden they are good. They get their contract, and their numbers flake out as does their effort. Most don't qualify under this, and some can be coincidence as they are just entering their prime. I just would always rather error on the side of caution on dealing with people who have problems with listening, effort, conditioning or BB IQ. Hawes had issues with most of those.

For your comment about JT, I always thought of him as a double double guy with his biggest strength on the boards. I never thought of him right away as a defensive guy, but I was hoping with his size/mobility he'd be solid in that area. Unfortunately he is all but useless on D.

I thought he could be a defender because the scouting profiles suggested this. And he shut down Beasley in a college game.

But when Mehmet Okur scored 27 points on him in his rookie year, not via jumpers but by just driving at him; and when David West scored 40 on him, I realized he needed to get a lot better. And it hasn't happened.

I feel he has IQ in just that he knows his role and doesn't try to do too much. He's not someone like Andray Blatche, where he makes terrible decisions and you're hoping he matures. Thompson has no offensive game, but at least he realizes that.

Maybe a different coach could use that attitude and get some defense out of him, so he could be a better backup player. (I know he starts right now, but he's really a backup type player.) At least he seems willing to learn.

For a guard on the floor, who is struggling, I'd like to see some strategical talk from Evans. I would be fine with his quietness if he were playing better, but now, I'd like to know what he's thinks is going wrong in these games.